It started with a dream. I dreamt that I had brought a huge grocery cart full of groceries from Whole Foods with me to therapy. The contents of the cart had to be worth over $1000. At the top of the cart were three baguettes. When, in the dream, Igor saw the baguettes he said, "Why did you get those? They will make you eat fast." Him saying that kind of bugged me and I wanted to explain to him that I eat slow but I knew he was taking info from a past session and so there was no point in trying to explain it to him. But, I was upset that he was misreading something fundamental about my temperament.
Then in the dream Igor and I were sitting on an ottoman. I grabbed the back of his hair because I wanted to feel how thick his hair was. I wanted to feel his substance. I was afraid he would interpret this action as erotic and it wasn't.
So, I tell Igor the dream last Thursday. He asks for my interpretations. I tell him that I think it means I am bringing something valuable, nutritive and wholesome with me to therapy. This is a lot of groceries and they are really expensive. I think it means I bring a lot of good things with me to therapy. "It's not like I bring a big trailer load of dirt or trash. I am bringing fancy groceries."
"And, what about the baguettes? What kind are they?"Igor asked greedily.
"The French kind. You know the long and thin ones. The kind you can only get in France. " This image seemed loaded with symbolic potential. Igor was blinded by the bread and ignored what they might mean to me.
"Well, I wouldn't be telling you not to buy those or warn you not to eat them quickly. I love those. I would eat those fast. French bread is the best and with jamon.....mmmmm. I love the jamon." He said it with far away eyes. His face indicating that he was no longer with my dream but dreaming of far away French bread.
I found myself thinking, 'where the hell is he going with this?'
"Did I tell you that I have a sister who lives in France?" Igor asked.
"Uh, no." Again I wondered what the clinical value of this information was.
"Yeah, she lived in L.A. and didn't like it. She hated L.A. and she moved to Paris and got married and she adopted a child and she is very happy. She loves Paris and would never come back to L.A."
"Nice." I said. But in truth it felt anything but nice. He knows how I am hurting about baby and living in L.A. He know how much I love Paris. It felt sadistic. I shut down and didn't want to talk about the dream anymore or even Paris. I felt as if he was trying to make me depressed. If he has been paying attention to my body language or my affect he would have seen how the story of his sister affected me. He didn't.
He spent the rest of the session asking questions about what He-weasel does for a living and then he wanted me to explain the difference between north and south New Jersey. I answered his questions and was simultaneously pissed that I was paying $200 to talk about He-weasel's job.
Almost immediately upon hearing that we might have been moving to NJ, which sadly we aren't, Igor asked me what would happen to us( meaning me and Igor). That was his first reaction. Let me tell you that there were MANY clinical issues to explore when the possibility of us moving away from L.A. arose but he wasn't interested in any of them. He wanted to know if he was still going to get his $800 for me. I left the session feeling hurt, angry and pissed( and then I went to see Away We Go).
Since the session I have had several dreams in which I feel that I am being attacked by something from the outside( attacking masculines) who don't get me and who misunderstand me and don't listen to what I am saying. In one dream I was in a high rise building and I heard a lot of outside noise and I went out on the patio and I saw a bulldozer that was supposed to be picking up debris and instead I knew it was going to destroy me. I flipped it the bird and went inside. Hmmmm.....I wonder what that could be about.
I really want to break up with Igor.
Thursday, July 16, 2009
I want to break up with Igor: Yeast and irritation are rising
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59 comments:
I'm sorry you had this experience with Igor. Sounds kind of like a parallel with your dad. Trust your gut. I once had a therapist that I suddenly realized in the middle of a session, that he had no idea what to do with me. We ended up parting on very bad terms.
I wonder if he was trying to evoke a reaction from you. Even if he was, I think that was a very cruel way of doing so. He probably doesn't have a sister in France.
The best therapist I ever had was a MSW. She made two seemingly very simple statements to me that really changed my perspective. If you have the energy, you can find another, if you wish.
I personally would like to come out and beat him over the head with those baguuettes and snatch the back of his hair off.
I don't like him. That's horrid....but not surprising. He's not exactly an elightened soul or advanced spiritual being: just another LA nutbag with a piece of paper...sorry :)
Tell him what you told us and then decide. His true self will be revealed then I suspect...xv.
Dr Nir, the ancient Freudian psychiatrist who managed my meds, occasionally indulged in self-disclosure. It was exceedingly annoying. However, sometimes when you want to bust out of therapy, it's because something is coming to the surface that you would rather avoid. It could even be the source of the dreams.
I have seen an MSW for psychotherapy twice a week for roughly 15 years, and she has never self disclosed. It's much more satisfying because I never, ever feel like she's fucking with my head. The Freudian Psychiatrist, on the other hand, I often suspected of head fuckery.
The worst part is that now you have to tell him you're pissed and why. I don't doubt he likes his money, but shrinks get sick of patients that bore on and don't apply the insight gained in therapy to real life. He undoubtedly finds you intriguing.
I doubt he's self-absorbed and mean. More likely he's manipulating your emotions for your therapeutic benefit (and maybe his own kicks. You never know with shrinks). When you confront him with your feelings, you'll be confronting the person in your past in a safe, controlled environment.
Most likely, it's just what you need. But it's infuriating and painful, that's all. You'll work it out.
That dream about the bulldozer? Igor is the bulldozer, and instead of picking up your pieces he is damaging you.
I would trust very instinct on this one. He has said some highly inappropriate things to you (i.e. about his sister, what an idiot!) and sounds selfish.
You deserve better. Much love to you x
p.s. re the dog issue, see my post today!
Mmm ok this is not the same league but my osteopath seriously pissed me off due to making a remark that revealed his character. It took a few sessions more for me to never go back. I wanted healing not judgement or stress or any other fuckwittage. Igor is he-gone!
Look save yourself $800 dollars, have a break, get another recommendation for someone else preferably female. That was wrong wrong wrong whether true or not - what he said about his 'sister'.
Dump him
PS the other comments are good too especially Julianne and PENolan but I still say dump him!
I'll weigh in here too... I was going to say something the other day, after the Dave Eggers/cinema post, but you weren't asking then, so... I think you could do better than Igor.
I think self-disclosure by shrinks is almost always a bad idea. When it happens enough that you're thinking "I'm spending $200 to hear him talk about his sister in France? To explain to him about New Jersey?", then it's time to look for someone new. He can have this kind of chat on his own time, with his own Igor-ish friends. I think this is lazy and self-indulgent behaviour on his part, and I don't think you should put up with it.
I second the ideas of Julianne and Make Do Style -- save yourself some money, use it to buy Lily some new outfits, whilst you also shop for a new therapist. And I gently suggest it should be someone female. I think (as not-politically correct as it probably is to say this) that only a woman can truly understand issues about 1) infertility and childlessness and 2) moving house/city/country.
Some women won't understand either, but I believe you have a better chance of finding someone with good insights, surrounding issues that are fundamental to you, if you engage with a woman therapist. Because, however you slice it, "motherhood" and "home" are incredibly deep, complex things that (I believe) only another woman can deeply understand and interpret well, in a therapeutic setting.
It reminds me of when I saw someone, and at one point, he asked, "Well, don't you just stop and think, this is PMS when you fly into a hysterical rage?" And I was all, who stops and thinks while PMSing? is this guy for real? That was it for him. I found a female therapist, who at least didn't ask such mind-blowingly stupid questions! I mean really!!!
Good luck with all that. But I repeat, these sessions are supposed to be about you. You. YOU. The minutes you spend on him are signs that he's not working for you anymore, he's coasting. And you totally deserve better.
i think i can't stand igor.
another therapist, definitely, that's my vote.
it's a toss up, for me, on the issue expateek brings up.
a woman might understand some of the issues, but it also might be too close to home - it would be great if you could find someone who could personally relate (i am sure a professional is supposed to rise above personal experience, but i believe that people are people and we are all limited by our individual perspectives and experiences, one way or another), but if you sat down across from a mother, it might get too complicated. a male therapist does offer a certain distance that will help you function better together. however, then you come across these moments where the jackhole in the chair across from you is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far from where you are.
Ech yech. Maybe it IS time to move on. I had a therapist who hadn't rec'd payment from my insurance company and it took her a month to tell me, and even though it wasn't anything to do with ME, she spent an entire session talking to me about my feelings when she confronted me about the money. Seriously? I mean, SERIOUSLY?
Therapy should be all about you, and it sounds like you know that. Perhaps a dumping is due.
OK, maybe I'm going to be the voice of dissent here, but I do think Igor has participated with you in some fantastic self-development. Occasionally, I have been blown away by his insights. Is it possible that he might have been trying to get a rise out of you for therapeutic reasons? Is it also possible that he was just having a really off day and wasn't using his best professional demeanour? (to put it mildly) I know that's not really on - certainly not optimal - but could you try to give him another chance and see if it goes somewhere positive? For you, I mean. Not for him.
Note: If you know in your heart that it's over, it's great that you have come to that closure. I hope you will remember the experience as a really good one for the most part.
Trust your gut. This economy may have Igor a little more than invested in your remaining a patient than it has to do with your genuine welfare. Keep your eyes wide open.
Do it.
Then in the dream Igor and I were sitting on an ottoman.
Well there's your problem. Sultans aren't all that comfortable.
(sorry for the poor attempt at make-you-feel-better-ism, you know that I, like you, generally detest such things).
As a corollary to previous commenters, yes, save the $800 and spend it on NFL DVDs. He-weasel will love you even more.
The fact that Igor was skirting around all your issues and asking non-pertinent questions, I think Igor doesn't take you seriously anymore. And that comment about his "sister?" I don't believe it. In fact, I don't believe he even has a sister. I think he was trying to goad you. For good or for evil, I can't say.
augh, how complicated. i usually ask myself am i growing, am i learning? does this feel like i'm on the right track? sometimes it takes time to know... but when you know... there lies your answer.
i don't mean to go all cryptic on you. i guess i'm trying to say... what does your heart say? and what are you going to do about it?
plus it helps to talk about it until it gets clear.
(you have helped me get clear many a times... thank you)
bisous!
p.s. what does Lily say:)
Dreams are so complex, I might have thought that you were trying to make him understand something that he was not, something like understand all the things that make me happy, but you are not getting it.
Weird reaction from Igor though...seems unprofessional, weird, improper, at a loss for more words. I am always dumbfounded when someone shows an unexpected response, is this real...Regardless, I think your intuition is right, and you should be irritated at giving him $200 for that session. Trust your self LBR, you are wiser than you give yourself credit for.
xoxo
La Belette, I can't even accept the idea that your dream and Igor are real. It all feels like fiction to me; a neat tale of fantastic consequences; a dream of spending inordinate amounts on food; bread for six people. You can write this up and people will gobble it up.
I have to step back and tell you to step off the stage, get off Igor's couch, take your money and start a charity. You'd get more insight and satisfaction out of that.
I'm still pissed off on how much money I spent on therapy. More than a decade later I still get annoyed when I drive by her big Brentwood house. I'm sure that I personlly paid for her remodel.
Let's just say that I agree with commentor Home Before Dark
Breaking up is hard to do - with anyone. Esp a therapist one has trusted for years. And yet, sometimes, its just time. Miss J considered breaking up w/ her therapist for many months before she did. It really started the weekend Miss J attempted suicide and couldn't reach her therapist. She was sick- but still. No back-up? REALLY? Miss J weighed the matter very carefully for a couple months. Finally she realized that maybe she come as far as she could with that particular person. And that's an OK discovery. Good luck with this, Miss La B. Maybe its just a bump in the road...
I think....you should take a vacation. Miss a session or two. Be selfish. See where it leads you.
love you lots...
Sometimes Igor really baffles me. Why on *EARTH* would he say that stuff about his sister, knowing it was like poking at a really big bruise?
dang.
I am a firm believer in trusting your instincts. If you have the slightest doubt about him and are not receiving what you should from your sessions it's time to cut the loss and walk away. You deserve so much better.
This is an absolute horrid story, I am so sorry that you have to go through this at a time when he should be helping you the most.
Instead of flipping that bulldozer off you should go back to him and flip him off for good!
1. More on the dream symbolism. Groceries/food = things to digest. You bring your issues (things to digest) with you to therapy hoping Igor will help you digest them and later on (sorry) pass them out of your system. In your dream he didn't do that but assumed you would eat them quickly which, in terms merely of digestion, is not helpful. This mirrors your current sense of unease about your latest therapy session.
2. I sense the threat of oncoming grief. You're considering leaving Igor. But you're also writing a book about your therapy with Igor.
Whatever you decide to do, you can probably do just as well without Igor. Your area must be filled with brilliant therapists. Maybe he's given you all he can already. Or you can try telling Igor what's bothering you. Everyone has their limitations. Maybe he's gotten too comfortable with you and was speaking to you more as a friend than a therapist? If he's a professional he shouldn't mind you reminding him of his expected role in these sessions.
It's painful, I know, to find out someone you've been confiding in doesn't understand you as much as you thought they did. Meditate on it though before deciding what to do. Good luck!
I must confess that you have on occasions, tempted me with this whole therapy thing, This post is the very reason why I could not do it. He is paid to listen and help, yet clearly his idea of therapy appears to be a what most people use a trip to the pub for. Worse it almost counts as water cooler talk.
I think one of the downsides of working from home is the lack of small talk. I guess he needs to get out more then maybe you could show him how to blog. He sure needs to find some kind of outlet so he can get back to doing his job properly.
I really don't have much in the way of advice, except to let you know that I'm experiencing this exact same thing with my therapist (whom I refer to on my blog as Gigi). Two weeks ago we had a session that left me in tears. She tried to convince me that I was not yet fully healed from the experience of my first love--and this was ten years ago. And there are other things she said, but I won't repeat them here.
I gave her another chance this past week, and it was a much better session. However, I'm keeping my options open. I'm going to research different therapists, but it's so hard to even get on a waiting list these days.
I just can't believe that Igor was so freakin' insensitive to make that comment about his sister, especially given all that you have been through.
Many hugs to you, Belette. Like Julianne said, trust your gut.
Trust your gut. Find another.
I did, and found an angel who worked with me for years and was absolutely irreplaceable.
The therapist thing is a tricky one for me to consider since my only experience is now long ago and far away. Perhaps I was guided to paths I would never have found without having experienced the safety of talking about painful subjects to someone safely separated from my personal life. Eventually I moved on and so will you when the time and circumstance are right. You'll know when.
Ok - Here is my take on what you have written - and I could be way off - but this is how I read it.
Your dreams says you are taking lots of great stuff to therapy to metaphorically eat and digest, but you couldn't agree on the speed at which this needed to be done.
Now Igor is a smart man, from what I can gather, and I think he doesn't have a sister in France who adopted a baby who used to live in LA but hated it - he is trying to get a rise - or in some ways even get you to have a break through.
He spends the rest of the session talking small talk - trying to make you get so angry with him for ignoring your feelings that you'll actually have a go at him and instead you suck it all up and bottle it in and then think about breaking up rather than facing your demons.
I'm glad you didn't break up with He-Weasel first disagreement you had (I'm assuming you've had a disagreement or two).
I think that Igor is trying a new way to get through to your issues, but you didn't bite. Go back and get angry with him, don't walk away and shut it down.
Of course, what you do is up to you competely - I'm just trying to get a different perspective on it.
lots of love, hugs and pbc (eaten slowly of course!)
omar khyyam had a poem about a loaf of bread, a jug of wine... ;)
After the nice and happy day you had, this sucked.
Igor's insensitive - in telling you about his sister and making money off of you. Or could he be steering you in any particular direction?
I gotta say, I'm with Imogen on this one.
Oh and the bulldozer - you're resisting so hard he needs to get a bulldozer to try and break through.
Of course - you are the expert in dream analysis and I bow to your wisdom.
xxx
This is a very simplistic thing to say, I know, and doesn't take into account all the delicacy, complexity, history and emotional implications of the issue, but: in this case, he sounds like a bit of a git.
relationhips should be easy at least 90% of the time.
otherwise, in my opinion, they aren't productive.
the bags of groceries: those represent value, nutrition and a healthy, nurturing life. it's the least you should expect.
you deserve to be nurtured.
I've read all the comments and still say dump him. What point is there to make you angry or push you - exactly what for? This is old hat psychoanalysis of an era that has long passed. Both Freud and Jung offered great insights into the mind and the will of the id. I see this in petit garcon and you know what no parent can get it right. All we can do is strive to achieve the best possible to give them confidence and let them be themselves. So childhood development apart - as an adult the challenge to our own id/ego is still useful and I slept on this issue of Igor and his comments to you last night and I dreamt about Sister Wolf - I won't bore you with the whole dream but basically it boiled down to an event in her life which the blogging world manage to interrupt radio programmes to broadcast the moment just for a minute. I woke up thinking about the relevance of the dream and also equally concerned about you - then I worried some more abotu you after dropping the garcon at nursery. I think Sister Wolf embodies the mother her being at the fore reminds me of caring about others and being able to listen. I don't think Igor is hearing you and is applying a strategy or formula which isn't gone to help or heal.
He was useful for a while but now he's become a parody. We had all hoped of better things from him. I loved the sessions and the insight but now he's got nothing more to offer.
You need the person now who will take you were you need to go.
I read your post and all the comments. I think that Imogen might be on the right track. It seems logical. What are you going to do about it- I don´t know. Speaking of therapists, the one I visited, also sometimes behaved in a strange way. From the very beginning, when I started, I also told her about my horses ( my passion). I explained everything in a very simple way, as one would, to a person who is not familiar with horses. For many years, I told her everything I had in mind on this subject. Then one day, she told me that she too owned a horse, had owned one for several years already. I felt embarrassed and ridiculous. Why had she not told this from the very beginning? Well, my therapy continued yet many years but the ending of it happened very quickly. I had felt very bad for some reason many months, and I thought that the therapy wasn´t going anywhere. There was a total collapse in the finale from my part and it has taken many months for me to recover. Today I feel at peace with myself. Truely a fantastic feeling, being in terms with myself and my past. Sometimes odd things have a purpose. Maybe Igor is trying to speed you in some way, I really don´t know. You might want to talk it over with him and then decide.
I like what Vicki said--maybe worth giving him a chance to explain himself. I'm sorry, B. Growth is so effing hard.
Have missed being over here, and now on to catch up on the rest.
Ok, Bellette. I do not know whther you should break up with Igor or not, but I do do do think you should tell him how you are feeling in an attempt to resolve this before you break up. It may be the most valuable part of your therapy.
Whole Foods food is the best as are you.
I'm no authority on therapists but I like what Imogen said. He could be trying to make you mad. Everything worthwhile has to be completely maddening on occasion. Tell him and see what he says.
Sending Good vibes.
Was he clueless? Or was he trying to provoke you? You have such vivid dreams. I almost never remember what I dream.
May I suggest therapy by Trader Joe's Kettle Corn. Perfect balance of sweet, salty and crunchy and only slightly fattening. It's been my source of comfort through the stress of getting a job this summer.
I am coming to this a bit late, but it sounds like he is past his use by date. I vote dump him too, have a few weeks off and find someone nicer.
oh, a quart of melted garlic butter would do wonders for those baguettes... plus a wheel of cheese, and a gallon of chianti, perhaps? ;)
Difficult for me to give you any advice, but as a minimum I believe you should get a free session with him as a compensation... and you should give a serious warning!!
In the meantime, I will take continued pleasure in reading your posts, Igor or not!
I'll listen for free. But you'd have to live in Ohio.
I'm intrigued by this whole situation because of the number of passionate opinions on the subject.
It's not unlike the way folks got drawn into the story of Utah and Cal. I hope it's not overwhelming.
Hi. Your post seems to have hit the proverbial universal nerve. Does Igor speak with a quack? Good luck.
I love your blog! I found you via Twitter search for #infertility and after reading "About You" I realize we have so much in common...it is comforting me to know there are other women, my age, childless not by choice, trying to figure it all out!
I am a therapist and writing a memoir that includes lots about my journey through unsuccessful infertility. I love when other women write so openly about this subject!
All the best to you!
The feelings a dream evokes are meant to be a really important part of the meaning of that dream. As the baguette dream left you feeling upset and misunderstood, it would seem that Igor probably is currently failing to understand your surface (or maybe top) issues and resources (a guess as to what the wholefoods really are) let alone address your deeper resources.
His rudeness in disclosing his sister's personal situation and then ignoring your obvious anguish, is shameful. Can you go back and explain how he made you feel - noting that these feelings, generated by his stories, are not what your expectations are.
Good luck and best wishes - if you dump him I hope find someone great.
I am really losing "it"....meaning I am not sure what but "it"...I read this twice and thought I had left you a few thoughts and don't see me, do I? ahh well, here's another if I am missing me somewhere in this vast list...I don't know how you keep up with these many lovely readers commenting!!!
ok, about this:
"Yeah, she lived in L.A. and didn't like it. She hated L.A. and she moved to Paris and got married and she adopted a child and she is very happy. She loves Paris and would never come back to L.A."
I read this and wondered if he was perhaps goading you a bit to get some kind of response that would start a dialogue going in "his" direction for the session...it's just a thought but it seems cruel to say this to you otherwise and if not, I really don't get it!! [hoping I don't lose this while I go back to the page] oh crap, it won't let me! wishing there was the pop up box ;)
ok, from memory, in the end, I feel very weird about all this and just can't quite understand his implications nor his weird sort of spacing out on what your issues are...do you feel that way? I had a thought about this though and it is in his defense I suppose in a way, but perhaps he thinks your dream meant you don't think you are getting your money's worth, so are bringing something of MORE worth in terms of real cash, and so he is taking a weird tangent OR he was really thrown by it all, your frankness and the sexual undertones too, and just didn't know what to do for the session...I don't get the self-disclosure at all and it "feels" like a ploy to me...I am trusting he is a good therapist and not a jerk as he is sounding here and you will continue on with him even tho he has seriously breached some tender territory, to say the very least!!!!!
in the end, you need to talk to him, before you tell him to fuck off...in my opine, it would be good to tell him every single thing you can remember he said, and how it made you feel and find out specifically what the meaning is behind some of the strangeness... I am really dumbfounded by this....
I will say I was with a shrink for over 12 years until he suddenly died of pancreatic cancer, and there were days he was simply off his game...pure and simple and he didn't own it nor admit it and we moved on...things will happen to let you know what to do but I am sure you know not to make a decision without discussing it with lots of people you trust and if he is one you still trust, then definitely clue him in...
[and if he ever does this again, shove something down his throat and light his hair on fire after you have shaved off an eyebrow.]
much love and my heart is with you....I know this is tough to take, to have him almost seem to betray you this way.
xoxoxox
Hi Belette, wow, 50 comments here, all excellently written, full of compassion and understanding... personally, I think I'd bag the expensive therapist, and just ask people in the blogosphere for advice about any subject under the sun, and it looks like you'll get plenty of good advice, right here, for FREE ! Motivated only by care and concern for you, and not out of any greedy need to get paid for idle chit-chat...¨
PS Thanks a million for your kind words about the Islands poem... merci !
hello there from France-
I love your post,so real, so touching and yes, I would want to grab Igor's hair and shake him a bit for missing the plot!
Male shrinks like to focus on the baguette symbolism of their own projected needs....troublesome and tedious but, never the less rather human! Sounds like you are ready to make your move....either from LA or Igor !
your dreams are rich with stuff,telling you that you are the bulldozer, and not going to wait for anyone else to move the crap!!!
pretty cool awakening, yet it can be disguised in mutual rejection-like perceptions. hey, thanks for sharing you are such a fresh breath of air!!! have a super weekend
salut
I'm with K.Line.
I'm against people who say things like "Start a charity, you'll feel better." If that were the solution, no one in the helping professions would ever suffer from depression.
talking about your feelings with igor makes sense.
a warm baguette with butter over coffee is a great place to start.
if you haven't already 'talked yourself blue' with him, which i suspect you have.
It has relamente that therapists often do not hit anything.
I wish you good dreams and good fluids to bring in your life.
oooh yeah. Even better. Get Kramer to pretend to be your boyfriend so you can breakup with Igor. xx
do it
I wonder whether Igor was trying to challenge you with the sister stuff in some sort of misguided way? Trying to get you angry for some reason?
But the *all about me* woes he laid on you seem so inappropriate.
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